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The voices behind Dragon Ball Z & Firewatch

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This episode was written & produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows.

We hear disembodied voices all the time, in everything from cartoons and anime to commercials and trailers. It seems easy, but it's actually an intricate craft involving a great amount of training. What does it take to create multiple, unique personalities using only a voice? Featuring voice actors Christopher Sabat (Dragonball Z, One Piece) and Cissy Jones (Firewatch, The Walking Dead).

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

Coding - Steven Gutheinz
Crutch - Instrumental - John Steen
Blame The Weather - Instrumental - Clubhouse
Better and Better Instrumental - Andrew Judah
Japan (no-oohs-ahhs) - Watermark High
Washedway by Evolv


Twenty Thousand Hertz is produced by Defacto Sound.

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View Transcript ▶︎

[Music start]

From Defacto Sound, you’re listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz. The stories behind the world’s most recognizable and interesting sounds. I’m Dallas Taylor.

This is a little glimpse of what it’s like to be a voice actor.

[Mickey Mouse clip]

Ever since Mickey Mouse whistled those first notes while steering this boat in Walt Disney’s 1928 short film Steamboat Willie, the public has been fascinated with animated characters who have funny voices.

Just two years later in 1930, Warner Brothers launches Looney Tunes to compete with Disney’s Mickey Mouse shorts. Originally designed to promote Warner Brothers’ music catalog, these cartoons became more famous for their characters. A majority of which were voiced by one man: Mel Blanc.

Mel Blanc brought to life enduring favorites; Bugs Bunny [Bug Bunny clip], Daffy Duck [Daffy Duck clip] and Porky Pig [Porky Pig clip]. Along with 397 more characters in his lifetime.

Christopher: He is the iconic voice guy. Anyone who grew up on any of the Bugs Bunny cartoons or anything like that, his voices just part of your subconscious. I am Christopher Sabat. I am a Voice Actor.

Even to this day anyone from any age you can use, "Yeah, can you make this sound a little bit more Yosemite Sam?" Everybody knows what you're talking about. He's just such an iconic voice.

Mel Blanc was soon followed by other iconic Voice Actors. There was also June Foray, best known as Rocky from Rocky and Bullwinkle [Rocky and Bullwinkle clip] , Don Messick, the original Scooby Doo [Scooby Doo clip], and Daws Butler, AKA Yogi Bear [Yogi bear clip].

These actors paved the way for contemporary favorites like Christopher Sabat of Dragon Ball Z Fame [Dragon Ball z clip] and Cissy Jones, the voice behind award-winning video games including The Walking Dead and Firewatch [Firewatch clip].

When asked to describe their own voices they has this to say:

Christopher: Man, what does my voice sound like?

Cissy: How would I describe my voice personally?

Christopher: My voice would be like if Don LaFontaine, the famous trailer guy was just your bro and you guys were totally tight.

Cissy: Maybe, if Charlize Theron were maybe an overtired mom?

Christopher: My voice is like a muscle car that has really nice interior. Now, that doesn't work either.

Cissy: Your best mom friend who changes your kid's diaper so you can have a margarita.

Christopher: My voice is like Nutella if you put on really good bread but it's also really warm too like you toasted the bread first. I don't know.

Cissy: Yeah, that about sums it up.

Both Christopher and Cissy have incredible ranges and I wanted to know what it takes to create so many different kinds of characters.

Christopher: I think it's different for each person. What I do think is very similar between a lot of different voice actors is that we become voice actors because we have an ability to quickly look at something and decide what kind of voice that thing needs. I look at people’s teeth and I look at their eyes. Does that person look up tight?"

The person has a really tight face [voice example] and so you kind of scrunch your face up a little bit. Does that person look really formal? They look [voice example] real loose, real jowely.

You have to imagine or ask where the person is from or what life they've had. There's just all these subtle factors that go into finding a voice. Then a lot of times you just look at that person, you go, "Oh, that looks like my uncle Johnny." You know what I mean? Sometimes you just draw voices from things in your life.

For Cissy Jones, character development starts with finding the answers for lots of questions.

Cissy: "Who is this person? What are their dreams? What are their fears? What is the first thing they think of in the morning, and the last thing they think of as they're going into sleep? What excites them? What terrifies them? In terms of scenes, who are they talking to? What are they talking about? Where are they? Is this a very intimate scene [voice example], or are they shouting across a field to one another [voice example]? Is this a battle scene, and I'm going to start screaming, and throwing blows?"

Really understanding who the person is in terms of what has gotten them to this scene, and then what the scene is. A lot of it is made up in my head. A lot of times, we don't get what the scene is. Sometimes we don't even get the actual name of the game, if it is a video game. We just have to make up whatever came before this line that I'm supposed to say, that makes absolutely no sense, but I have to make it make sense.

If I don't believe it, why should anybody else? You know, when I was working on "The Walking Dead," I used to come home and have nightmares about the zombie apocalypse.

I remember the last scene I did for Katjaa, and I had my, spoiler alert, death scene. I'm sitting in a booth in LA, and the directors are in San Francisco, and I gave my big emotional moving thing, and I just hear, [crying voice example] "Um, yeah, that was great. I think we can move on." I was like, "Okay, my job here is done."

Cissy actually played nine different characters in the video game series - The Walking Dead.

Cissy: I played Katjaa, Jolene, Brie, Dee, Shel, some randos, a couple guards, and most recently for "Michonne," I played the main bad guy, Norma, and another woman in a dream sequence named Vanessa.

[voice example] Jolene was just crazy. She was in the woods, and she'd been alone for a while. She was a crazy, you know. [voice example] And Brie was, she was suffering from cancer, and she was real angry about a lot of things. [voice example] Norma was just angry. She was running stuff, and she didn't like what she saw going on.

[voice example] Katjaa, she was a Belgian immigrant; she had been living in the United States for 14 years, but she was very sweet and matronly, and Katjaa gets very upset when she is panicked, and she cries a little bit, but she's not too crazy because her husband is usually the one who goes crazy. But she maintains decorum to a degree, unless she's getting run down by zombies, and then it hits the fan.

I developed the accent by following around a Belgian friend of mine with a tape recorder, for far too long, until it became awkward. Just played it back and listened to him before every time I had to record, before every session, before the auditions. I believe I had a weekend; I got the audition on a Friday, and it was due on a Monday, and I just followed him around like, "Talk more, talk more." He was like, "You're really getting on my nerves." But he loved the final performance.

It comes down to understanding who the characters are, and what makes them different, before picking a voice, if that makes sense. And that is true for any character in voice over; you never want to go for the voice first, because it's not believable.

Find out how Christopher keeps it believable, even with unbelievable characters and learn an industry secret about trailers from Cissy, next.

[music out]

MIDROLL

[music in]

It’s crucial to focus on believability, even when working with larger than life characters like Christopher does in anime, because if the audience doesn’t buy it, it can pull them right out of the story.

When he does the English versions for shows and films originally made in Japanese, he can look at the characters’ facial expressions and adjust his voice accordingly.

Christopher: I do a lot of voices for a show called Dragon Ball Z. Okay, so to go through, [Piccolo's voice] alright ah, we’ll start at the bottom. The lowest character I play is this guy named Piccolo. Piccolo has two emotions. He's either just cool and calm or he's like yawn at Gohan or something like that. On the other end of the spectrum, it's almost the same voice except where Piccolo is very low in my voice. Vegeta is very high [Vegeta voice], comes out of the nose and has this weird like British thing but if I take the scratch out of it and then make it not as British then I've got this guy named Yamcha [Yamcha's voice] who's like this totally dorky guy. Then if I put the scratch back into it and then I make it go like this I become this character named Burter [Burter's voice]. He's got this lispy weird thing going on. Then if I go back down to Piccolo again [Piccolo's voice], I then can open up the back of my throat and I can do this guy named Recoome [Recoome's voice] and believe it or not of all the voices I've ever done, that's the one that hurts the most because I have to tense up these muscles in the back of my throat and it hurts real bad sometimes.

Yeah, a lot of voices are just so close to one another but yet you can add like an accent or a lisp or that Burter voice [Burter's voice] have this lisp in it. Recoome, [Recoome's voice] I do this thing on my throat, with my mouth too.

And then right in the middle it's closer to my voice his name is Zarbon [Zarbon's voice]. He's just like a normal guy, he's close to my voice except with a slight British accent to him as well. There's where we're at, sometimes when I'm choosing a voice I do pick whether this is in my upper range and my lower range or I just try and find somewhere along my vocal chords to make a sound then I just try and keep it there.

But voice acting isn’t just about being able to do different character voices. Most voice actors, including Christopher and Cissy, do a lot of commercial work, too.

Cissy: Commercial is what you're going to book most often. Commercial is where you will make money.

Christopher: When you start getting into modern commercials where they are wanting really natural sounding voices. And that's where you're almost having to take out as much support of your voice as possible.

It's the sound you make when just like you're laying down next to somebody and you don't necessarily want to wake him up but you're having a conversation with them at the same time. When I'm having to read something realistic, sometimes the lower end of my voice sort of goes away and that just becomes really subtle because that’s what they’re looking for.

They are like, "Oh man, I want that everyday sounding guy” This is a true story too, "Could you say fresh pappardelle pasta like maybe ten times and we'll just pick the one we like?" Fresh pappardelle pasta. Fresh pappardelle pasta. Fresh pappardelle pasta. Fresh pappardelle pasta. I mean, it's over and over and over again and that's when being able to really play into your voice random generator that exist in any voice actor's head really comes in handy.

Cissy: I do ads for a grocery store in town every week, I do their weekly specials... you know, [voice example] "Stop by Ralph's this week for broccoli at $2 for whatever." You kind of have this range of emotion that you portray in your commercial reads.

You know, [voice example] bright and perky, and authoritative, and like a little bit sexy, and a little bit wry.

It’s her wry voice that’s really put Cissy on the map. She used it as the basis for her award-winning portrayal of Delilah in Firewatch, a first person mystery video game set in the Wyoming wilderness. As the player, you go to work as a Firespotter and Delilah is your boss. You never see her, so your entire relationship is over a two way radio.

Cissy: Well, Delilah's pretty much me. She's a little more flirty, she loves her puns, but you know, she's just kind of a wild card. You just never know what she's going to say.

She's funny, she's witty, she doesn't care what people think about her, which is what I loved about her so much. My favorite thing about the game is that you had to decide as a player how to feel about her, just based on her personality.

I also did a game right after "Firewatch" called "Adrift," so in "Firewatch," you pretty much have me talking non-stop for six hours, and in "Adrift," I'm an astronaut who wakes up in a space station that is destroyed, and I have to figure out what's happening and how to get home. It's basically me mouth breathing for six hours.

[Breathes] Yeah. I almost passed out during that session.

The amount of control a voice actor has to have over their face and body is pretty surprising. And doing what it takes to get the performance right can be...interesting.

Christopher: Some people will go, "I need that, I need a trailer voice done," a voice over thing, I have to go, let's see, [voice example] “Coming this Friday”, whenever I do the trailer voice type voice I always add a lot like this weird growl to my voice because one thing I noticed about the Don LaFontaine's voice.

Don LaFontaine is possibly the most famous voice in movie trailers. He’s the one known for the phrase...

[Don LaFontaine clip]

Christopher: It's not that it was like the deepest voice in the world. It's just he had this ability to send sound through his nose no matter what he was saying, [voice example] if it was a vowel or a consonant he always had something going through his nose. That was his signature, that's what made it so cool.

But the “voice of God” narration, as it’s referred to in the industry, isn’t the only thing voice actors get hired to do in trailers. There might be a line or two in a trailer that sounds like the star of the film, but it isn’t always that person.

Cissy: A lot of times when they’re writing a trailer, they need a single line of dialogue to make the trailer cohesive, but to bring in the celebrity is crazy expensive so they bring me in or someone like me. So I do [voice example] Penelope Cruz. I also do [voice example] Charlize Theron. When she's not available, I come in and do her; as a very British kind of sound. Or [voice example] Rebel Wilson. You know, it's just kind of all over the board. It's like whatever you can match, you get paid to do.

Most of us don’t think about our voices on a daily basis. What they can do and what we can do with them, but for some it’s their livelihood and they educate, inspire, and entertain us every day.

Twenty Thousand Hertz is presented by Defacto Sound a sound design team that makes sounds like this [sci-fi shooting SFX], this, [boxing SFX] and this [mnemonic SFX] for advertisements, trailers, TV Shows, games and tons of other things. Check out more and the videos associated with those sounds at defactosound.com. This episode was produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows and me. With help from Sam Schneble. It was mixed by Jai Berger.

The music in this episode is from Musicbed. They represent more than 650 great artists ranging from indie rock and hip hop to classical and electronic. Head over to music.20k.org to hear our exclusive playlist.

If you have not connected with us on Facebook or Twitter, go do it! I love hearing feedback and chatting about the show. Also, while you’re at it, please tell your friends. The only way someone will know about the show is if you tell them. We go to great lengths to keep this show clean, so feel free to tell your parents or people you’d like to introduce to podcasting. We’ve also made a little donation link at donate dot 20k dot org, if you’d like to contribute to the production costs of the show.

I'll put these links plus everything else in the show description. Which, if you're not in the habit of looking at, I highly recommend. We put tons of relevant and follow up information in there. Check it out. Thanks for listening.

 

Recent Episodes

Hearing Loss: What causes it and how to prevent it

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This episode was written & produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows.

Our ears are sensitive, but we often don’t treat them that way. We are born with the ability to hear up to 20,000 Hz. As we age, our hearing range diminishes. On top of that, the more exposure we have to loud sounds, the greater the impact it has on our ability to hear. Find out what happens once we start to lose our hearing. Featuring Lindsay Prusick and Shaheem Sanchez (Instagram).

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

On the Mountain by The Sea by Utah
In Slow Motion by Utah
SFSG by Utah
0212 by Utah
One Million by Utah
Breaking the Bank Instrumental by Reagan James
Washedway by Evolv

Twenty Thousand Hertz is hosted by Dallas Taylor and produced out of the studios of Defacto Sound.

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View Transcript ▶︎

[Music start]

From Defacto Sound, you’re listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz. The stories behind the world’s most recognizable and interesting sounds. I’m Dallas Taylor.

This is the story behind our hearing and what happens when it goes away.

[club music fading to silence]

Even a small amount of hearing loss can significantly impact a person. Almost forty million American adults, that’s fifteen percent, have difficulty hearing. And it gets worse the older you get. And right now, the world is louder than it’s ever been before.

Lindsay: Hearing loss for the most part tends to be a gradual thing for people as they age.

That’s Audiologist, Lindsay Prusick.

Lindsay: When people have hearing loss, largely, it's an invisible thing. You don't see it, but it has such a profound impact on people's ability to connect, communicate, even ultimately their quality of life. There are a lot of people who are born with hearing loss and it can be as a result of genetics, syndromes, things acquired through when a mother gives birth to a baby, various viruses, that type of thing.

Because it is so invisible, many people don’t think about hearing loss very much at all.

Lindsay: Really, in general, for the majority of people with hearing loss, it's a very gradual thing. People start to notice over time, "Oh gosh, it's hard to understand speech. Things sound muffled. People sound like they're mumbling," or just the quality of sound begins to decrease. [music decrease SFX]

This is a good thing to remember when you’re talking to older people...or really anyone who asks you to repeat yourself. You yourself can work to prevent hearing loss or additional hearing loss. But, it’s harder today than ever before.

Lindsay: We're constantly putting things in our ears and listening to sound. We're walking around with our smart phones that have now become basically our television [HBO SFX], our podcast source…[20K theme song, record scratch]

Hey, don’t blame me, I’m not controlling your volume!

Lindsay: Our music source, [music start] and we're placing ear buds into our ears and maybe you're getting on the subway [subway SFX] or you're on an airplane [airplane cabin SFX] or you're just in a noisy environment. So what do you do? You crank up that volume. That can be a very dangerous thing.

A great rule of thumb is if somebody is three feet away from you, and they're talking to you, and you can't hear them, the sound is too loud. And you should turn the volume down.

There are all sorts of things in our environment that can threaten our ears.

Lindsay: Try to think about the last time you were in a noisy situation, so a concert [concert SFX], maybe you mowed your lawn [lawn mower SFX], maybe you even just blow dried your hair [hair dryer SFX]. It seemed really loud at first and it's not as loud and that's because people experience a temporary shift in their hearing. They’re not nearly as sensitive to those sounds anymore. Let's say you're at a concert and you run to the concession stands. [begin muffling Lindsey] The cashier begins to talk to you and you realize they sound muffled.

Then maybe you hear a slight buzz or hum [buzz SFX] in your ears. These are all things you can notice when you're in the moment, but most people notice it the next day. I always refer to it as a noise hangover. It's typically your hearing is muffled or it's not as sensitive. You could even feel fatigued. Literally, just more tired than usual and you could have a headache. And these symptoms can last a day, they can last a couple days depending on how often you’ve exposed yourself to extreme levels of noise, you can even find that some of the symptoms go away, but others persist.

Over time the ears can take a beating and they may go back to normal, but the reality of it is anytime you exposure yourself to dangerous levels of sound, it does do damage to the hearing system.

One clear symptom of hearing damage is a ringing in the ears called tinnitus.

Lindsay: Tinnitus is the perception of sound either in one ear, both ears, or just in your head, without an actual sound occurring in the environment. It can be described in many ways. I'd say one of the most common is people will say, "I have a high pitched ringing" [high pitched ringing SFX]. They can express it as sounding like crickets [crickets SFX], buzzing [buzzing SFX], a tea kettle going off [tea kettle SFX]. There's all sorts of descriptions for it. It can be intermittent, meaning it happens at different times of the day, or it can be constant [tea kettle and ringing SFX], it is literally always there. A majority of the population when they experience Tinnitus, they find that they'll hear it and it'll go away. There are a lot of people that are highly, highly impacted.

Do you have tinnitus or other signs of hearing damage? Even if you don’t, I want you to try something with me.

For this part of the show, if you can, find a quiet space where you can concentrate for a few minutes. If you’re driving or something, just carry on. You can come back to this later.

Okay, welcome back.

Now set the volume at a comfortable level [mic check]. All set? Okay. The healthy hearing critical range is between 500 Hertz and 4,000 Hertz.

A Hertz is a measure of frequency and vibration. Imagine a speaker cone: It starts in the resting position, pushes outward, pulls back inward and then goes back to the resting position. One Hertz means this cycle would happen over the course of exactly one second. But we as humans can’t start to detect that sound until the speak is going through that cycle around 20 times a second.

That’s 20 Hertz, and it’s extremely low...at a high volume you’d be more likely to feel it rather than hear it, but that’s the threshold of where hearing begins. As we speed that speaker up, the pitch raises. Humans can theoretically hear all the way up to around 20,000 Hertz, but, you probably haven’t hear that sound since you were a kid. More on that shortly.

Now I’m going to play sounds in the critical range.

Here’s 500Hz [example]

Here’s 1,000Hz [example]

Here’s 2,000 Hz [example]

And this is 4,000Hz [example]

Now, this is in no way scientific. Your results will vary based on what type of headphones or speakers you’re using, where you’re listening, and any EQ settings you might have changed on your device. Still for most devices in most places all of those tones should have been clearly audible. So, if you struggled to hear any of those tones or couldn’t hear them at all, please go to a professional to get your hearing checked.

Now, just for fun, we’re going to go a little further. Everyone with average hearing should be able to hear 8,000 Hertz.

[example]

But, as we get older, our hearing range naturally diminishes to where we lose sounds in the top of our range. There are particular ranges that people over a certain age are not likely to hear. We’re going to play some of those now.

The first one, 12,000 Hz, is usually only audible to people under the age of 50.

[example]

And here’s 15,000 Hz, for people under 30…

[example]

And then 17,000 Hz, which only people under 18 should be able to hear.

[example]

Then there’s 20,000 Hz, here this show gets its name, it’s the highest possible sound that any human can hear.

Check it out...if you can hear it.

[example]

And finally, we’ll play a full sweep of the entire range of human hearing which is 20 Hertz all the way up to 20,000 Hertz.

Again, take all of this with a grain a salt because all listening devices vary. For example, if you’re listening in earbuds, you’re not going to hear anything in the low frequency ranges, but if you have a subwoofer in your car you might.

Now...

This is 20 Hertz [example] ...here’s 100 [example] ...200… [example]

this is 500 [example] ...1,000 [example] ...2,000 [example] ...4,000 [example] ...8,000 [example] ...12,000 [example] ...15,000 [example]. ..18,000… [example]

[example] and that was 20,000.

Based on your age, it may have sounded like we just stopped the test at some point. We all hear differently, and in a minute I’ll explain how some businesses have taken advantage of this as well as speak with someone who has experienced extreme hearing loss.

[music out]

MIDROLL

[music in]

As you now know, young people can typically hear higher frequencies than older people...and businesses have actually taken advantage of this. For instance, it’s been reported that businesses have blasted 17,000 Hertz tones in front of stores to keep kids from loitering. Most adults can’t hear it, but kids, are repelled by it.

Then, of course, kids figured out a way to use this tone to their advantage and started setting it as a text notification on their phones. This way they can get messages in class without the teacher catching on.

Just because you can’t hear something doesn’t mean it isn’t there. And nobody knows that better than Shaheem Sanchez.

Shaheem: I wasn’t born deaf. I lost my hearing when I was four.

Because of a bad nerve in his inner ears, now one ear is completely deaf. In the other, he uses a hearing aid.

Since he lost his hearing at age four, he has some foundation for hearing speech. This is part of why he’s able to speak as well as he can. The other part is that he can still hear some things.

Shaheem: I can hear with a hearing aid but not everything. I can hear a dog barking [dog bark]. A car sound [car SFX]. I can hear people talk [people talking SFX] but I don’t know what they’re saying. All I hear is mumbling like bu-bu-bu-bu-bu. That’s all I hear.

He can read lips, but he didn’t learn sign language until high school.

Shaheem: I grew up speaking. That’s why now, I speak clear.

But even though Shaheem’s able to voice for himself, he still endured bullying growing up.

Shaheem: People always used to judge me. Why you talk like that? You can’t hear yourself. They call me all kinds of names. But I feel comfortable now. I’m more comfortable.

But dancing was something that he always felt comfortable with.

Shaheem: I started dancing when I was 11. It’s what I love to do. I started dancing because my dad he also a dancer. He was killed before I was born so I never met him. So my family told me about him. I started to feel inspired. And then I started teaching myself how to dance.

But I didn’t hear so I only watched body language. Sign language is like body language, so that’s how I’m so good at that.

About ten years ago, when he was in high school, Shaheem was dancing on the street when he was approached by a dance instructor. That’s when he started taking formal lessons.

Shaheem: I have my own style but I’m learning different styles. Like ballet, jazz, hip hop, breakdancing, salsa, a lot of different styles.

But his favorite style?

Shaheem: I’m really into, like, R&B songs. I like dubstep. I also like hip hop, too. I feel the beat. The vibration. Most of the time.

He listens to songs by putting his hand on the speaker and feeling the beat. He also watches music videos with the captions on. It’s a painstaking process...

Shaheem: Study. Memorize. Listen to it over, over, over, and over. So I’m memorizing it. It’s not easy. Normally takes me, like, three weeks. I know a lot of songs. It’s crazy.

Shaheem’s the only one in his immediate family who’s deaf, but he isn’t the only dancer.

Shaheem: My brother, he looks up to me. I taught him how to dance. He picked up fast. I don’t know how he do it. He got better and better and better and better. Now, he better than me.

Shaheem’s brother, who goes by the name Lil Kida, got so good, he actually won a season of the TV show “So You Think You Can Dance.”

But Shaheem didn’t just teach his brother to dance…he taught him his drive too.

Shaheem: If you love to do it, put your heart into it. Never give up. No matter what. Deaf or not, you still can do it. Anything is possible.

A lot of hearing people just don’t know enough about what it’s like to be deaf. He knows visibility is crucial to understanding and has taken on raising awareness about the deaf community like it’s his job.

Shaheem: I want to show the world that deaf people can do anything equal to everyone. I want people to know that we may be different, but we do the things you can do. We can drive. We can read. We can learn. We can listen to music. We can do anything.

Our society is based around having all of your senses. And hearing is something a lot of us take for granted even though we shouldn't.

Hearing is fragile. Fleeting, even.

If you have it, protect it. And if you don’t, don’t apologize for it.

Whatever your situation, try to keep in mind that you’ll never know what other people’s experiences are unless you put in the work to find out.

Twenty Thousand Hertz is presented by Defacto Sound a sound design team dedicated to making television, film and games sound insanely cool. Find out more at defactosound.com.This episode was produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows and me. With help from Sam Schneble. It was sound designed and mixed by Nick Spradlin.

Thanks to audiologist Lindsay Prusick and to Shaheem Sanchez. You can see videos of Shaheem’s dancing on his instagram page at instagram.com/shaaheem. We will have a link to this and his Youtube page in the show notes.

We’d also like to thank Malonda Hutson and Susan Thompson-Gaines for their advice on the topic.

The music you’ve hearing is from Musicbed. They represent more than 650 great artists ranging from indie rock and hip hop to classical and electronic. Head over to music.20k.org to hear our exclusive playlist.

Finally, please tell your friends about the show, and connect with us on social!

You’ll find all of the links I’ve mentioned in the show description.

Thanks for listening.

Recent Episodes

From Screams to Serenity: How sound shapes us

bestworst.jpg

This episode was written & produced by Jocelyn Frank.

Some sounds are like rug burn for your ears, while others are pleasant and soothing. We explore these sounds and get to the bottom of why we might interpret them as “good” or “bad”. Featuring Tommy Edison and David Poeppel

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

Gimme that Good Stuff by Kaleigh Baker
Far by Steven Gutheinz
Eroica Symphony by Beethoven
Directions by Steven Gutheinz
Purple7 by Tangerine
Ineffable Act IV by Dexter Britain
Hello Honey by Ivory Hours
Washedway by evlov (Theme Music)

Twenty Thousand Hertz is produced by Defacto Sound.

Subscribe on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to see our video series.

If you know what this week's mystery sound is, tell us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mystery.20k.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Support the show and get ad-free episodes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠20k.org/plus⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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View Transcript ▶︎

[Music start]

From Defacto Sound, you're listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz... The stories behind the world's most recognizable and interesting sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor. This is the story of how our bodies and minds are actually shaped by sound.

[traffic, car crash, monkey montage SFX]

Sounds can startle us, make our hearts race... Sounds can cause us to cry, to laugh or bring us into a deep meditative state.

There are so many sounds that impact our bodies on a daily basis.

I mean to start, just think about the sounds that might interrupt an otherwise peaceful day. For example… A police siren [siren SFX]. blaring by as we commute to work.

And what about the cries of an unhappy baby...

[baby crying SFX]

Or a vacuum cleaner, waking you up from your Saturday nap...

[snoring and vacuum SFX]

Whatever the sounds-- good or bad-- we want to get to the bottom of what leads us to make judgements about those sounds. What is going on in our brains that makes us evaluate sounds in the ways that we do? And is there any truth to that lurking feeling that for some sounds, we ALL kind of hold a similar judgement? ....I mean, is there a person out there who LIKES the sound of fingernails on a chalkboard?

[nails on a chalkboard SFX]

And, a tiny aside here: I want to pledge to you right here and now, that this WON’T be an episode of completely cringe-inducing sounds...but... there may be two or three more... stick with us. We’ll make it worth your while…

[dentist drill SFX]

Ok, Maybe that was a cheap shot….but there are certain sounds that really work to grab people’s attention. Sounds of all types can trigger a wide variety of reactions in our human minds. There are those, like screams, that are uncomfortable [scream SFX] (and we’ll come back to that idea later) but there are other sounds that can also put us at ease.

Think about the cooing of a newborn child [baby cooing SFX], or the sound of a golf ball dropping right [golf ball drop SFX], into the hole. To get things started I want to bring back a friend of the show, film critic Tommy Edison.

Tommy: My name is Tommy Edison, I’m known on YouTube as the Blind Film Critic.

Tommy is also an exceptional listener. As someone who is blind, listening is even more critical to the way he moves through the world.

Tommy: I love audio man, I love it so much. It’s a sense I think I use more than anything else. Probably neck n’ neck with touch.

It is often noted that when people have one sense inhibited, other senses are strengthened, Maybe that’s part of the reason why Tommy is such a good listener.

Tommy: I like a nice ... a well-tuned piano [piano music track], a piano that's perfectly in tune and a nice rich sound, like a Steinway or something like that. Children laughing is a wonderful little sound, right? [children laughing SFX] It's a great sound. The symphony is breath-taking, because it's all live in front of you, there's no amplification whatsoever and it’s incredible. [Symphony clip]

And Tommy points out, beautiful, breath-taking sounds don’t require a fancy music hall- they can be found, in high fidelity, all around us.

Tommy: There's so many things in nature that sound that good, like the ocean [ocean waves SFX]. You stand right at the ocean, and it's beautiful because it's in big natural stereo, there are things happening on both sides of you, as well as happening directly in front of you. It's wonderful! I love that sound. [continue ocean SFX]

So much can be noticed, just by standing still and ... listening.

[continue ocean SFX]

Tommy: The birds first thing in the morning [bird chirrping SFX]. You wake up a summer day and you hear them all tweeting ... it's breathtaking. You go outside and again, huge, wide stereo, like nothing you could ever hear from anything you could ever buy, it's wonderful. I just love those thing. The birds especially it's just one of the greatest sounds ever. [continue bird chirrping SFX]

And what about sounds that are a nuisance?

Tommy: The sounds that bug me, the one that makes me crazy more than anything else is a constant whir. Like the fan above the stove for example [exhuast fan SFX]... That's in your kitchen, the exhaust fan [continue exhuast fan SFX], or the one in the bathroom that comes on when you flip on the bathroom light [bathroom fan SFX]. I hate those sounds so much. I never understood in libraries why the buzz of the fluorescent was so loud. [flourescent light SFX]

So what is the deal with sounds like that? Are parts of our brains actually getting rewired when a hum, or some other sound, just won’t quit?

David: It’s not a one size fits all question.

That’s David Poeppel. He’s a professor of auditory psychology at New York University. He runs a research lab that focuses on questions like these.

David: My lab's quite fun, actually. A lot of it is super nerdy and it’s actually very quantitative and geeky. It’s kind of fun.

Before we dive deep into the “geekiest” part of Dr. Poeppel’s lab research- let’s start off with some basics. When we hear that “fingernails on the chalkboard sound,” [fingernails on a chalkboard SFX] or any sound, pleasant or unpleasant. What is actually happening in our bodies?

David: First of all, of course, the ear part of your body does the first part of the work. So whether it's something scratching on a blackboard or a very nice sound, or a speech, sounds, basically mechanical waves, enter your ear canal. You basically vibrate the ears.

Our ears have fluid inside them [underwater SFX] and that fluid vibrates when the sound waves move in. That vibration then triggers neural codes…*[electricity SFX}*

David: The information gets shuttled along a series of stations in the auditory brain stem and up to the outer layers of the brain, the cortex, as we call it and it goes through different stations and different sorts of information are extracted.

Even as you listen right now, your ears and brain are going through this process. So, in essence, you’re currently comprehending the information about the process of comprehension… That’s pretty meta.

But, let’s get back to that “fingernails on the chalkboard sound.” Did you tense up a little just from me mentioning it? Don’t worry, I’m not going to play it. Our bodies can determine a lot, really quickly, when we hear a noise like that.

David: First of all, just the location of the sound, where is it coming from [radar SFX]. In this case you use timing information about the sound, vis-a-vis your head position and your body position, where it's coming from. You figure out, for instance, the loudness, its pitch. Like in the case of the fingernails, it's pretty high-pitched. It's a screechy, annoying thing. Then, you want to figure out its timbre, which gives it its identity. Location, loudness, pitch, and timbre are qualities that you extract, from every sound.

So SINCE our bodies and minds have these standard processes we follow regardless of the sound, does that mean, at some level, that all sounds are basically equal? It turns out that depending on whether the sound is nice or not, different nuclei do different things.

David: Different different parts of the brain, feed the information forwards that you interpret. Let's say this is a very obnoxious sound, like the one you’re mentioning, it also gets a kind of affective stamp.

So your brain kind of says, “hold up,” [car breaking SFX] pay attention to this one.

David: This sound has certain properties that actually also activate those parts of my brain that tell me something is annoying or dangerous.

Dallas track: And all this happens, thankfully, really fast.

David: Because you want to be immediately alarmed and say, "Holy cow, I have to turn away and run," or something like that. You don't want to have a kind of deliberation, like, "Is this a good idea? Probably not."

David Poeppel’s lab has looked even more closely at this concept of reactions to alarming sounds. They wanted to know if certain characteristics of a sound cause these reactions, so they started a research project on an alarming sound that we’re all familiar with. We’ll get to that, in just a minute.

[music out]

MIDROLL

[music in]

David Poeppel’s lab has looked at the unique ways our brain reacts to alarming sounds. They wanted to know if there were certain properties within the sound that correlated to that, as he says, “holy cow, I have to turn away and run” response. So, They launched a research project focused entirely on…screams.

David: Screams that are alarming. Those, of course, are designed to be extremely effective at making you pay attention at being ready to fight or flight, basically. They have to be super, super effective.

And when David says alarming screams, he’s not talking about screams because your favorite team just scored the winning point [crowd cheering SFX]. We’re talking about the kind of screams people make because they suddenly realize a hungry lion just snuck up behind them! [terrifying scream SFX]

David: Those kind of screams have a acoustic property called "roughness.”Roughness, has, it's a little bit weird to explain, but it's basically the rate at which the loudness of the sound changes. When we're speaking, you and I are having a conversation, the loudness of the signal, goes up and down about four to five times a second.

When you make it, let's say, 30 times or 50 times or a hundred times a second, the sound gets a quality called "roughness." This roughness, actually correlates very precisely with interpreting a sound as alarming or scary.

So let's hear that; we reproduced an experiment, like one done in David’s lab. Here is the first option...

[whimpy scream SFX]

Ok, so that was kind of wimpy. Let's hear what it sounds like when we add more roughness.

[rough scream SFX]

David: You have to learn to think like uh, like you’re sitting on a wave form, going forward, right? Imagine speech as an oscillating waveform and imagine yourself sitting on that and just going up and down.

That rollercoaster of waveforms that you're sitting on is actually what gets interpreted by the mind and the brain. It's the specifics of how that rollercoaster of the wave is organized that actually is at the basis of how you how you interpret sound.

Independent from the emotional memories that we might connect to a particular sound, there are straight-up acoustic of certain sounds that impact how we evaluate the pleasantness or unpleasantness of that sound.

David: So there's a very direct correlation between this acoustic property of roughness and the extent to which, as a listener, you interpret the sound as frightening or alarming. Turns out that alarm signals more generally have that property…car alarms [car alarm SFX], police sirens [police siren SFX], they all share that roughness property.

If alarm sounds have specific qualities that yield specific, measurable responses in us as listeners, what about the other side of the coin?

[nightime rain and crickets SFX]

What about beautiful, peaceful and positive sounds?

David: Why things become pleasant is an extremely interesting and growing research area why do we like certain things. It turns out that we don't know that much about it.

But research is getting underway.

David: Nature sounds, animal sounds, positive vocalizations things like laughter [laughing SFX]. Seems obvious that they should have some properties that make us want to listen. Whether they share something, seems to me, kind of unlikely. If you think about it acoustically, if you record those sounds and look at them in a quantitative way they have vastly different properties.

So I guess want to raise is that the case of alarms or dangerous things, you want to be very specific in an evolutionary sense. Because you want it to be like a hammer [hammer SFX]. When you hit that thing, it always works the same way. Positive things are a little bit more open to interpretation/ It doesn't matter that you have it the same way always. I think there's maybe a difference between positive affect and negative affect signals, because they serve a very different function.

Beyond good sounds and bad sounds, alarm sounds and positive sounds, there’s another angle into all this that I wanted to ask Dr. Poeppel about.

Sounds seem to have this ability to impact us in groups. Think about the sounds of a traffic jam.

[traffic jam SFX]

They are clashy and angry. The more honking there is, the more the moods of those few honkers seems to spread out across all the drivers... people seem to treat each other differently because of the dissonant experience.

And sounds can bond people-- bring us together-- in spiritual ways. They can help focus thousands of people... into the same mindset.

What it is about our bodies and minds that allows us to connect this way? Is there a way to measure something so abstract?

There are some common properties about those collective and sometimes spiritual sound moments….the chanting, the singing... but... it’s not about the sounds themselves.

David: The first thing is you're in a group. The second thing is you're trying to actually synchronize. And it's the latter that's very compelling and that we can now measure, that hasn’t been done, this is just at the beginning of research these days but is to try and figure out how, not just pairs of people but entire groups actually become synchronized.

That's why, for instance, an orchestra can work or a choir. But in the chanting case, one very compelling experience is this feeling, the feeling of groupiness.

That “groupiness” is something that scientists can actually measure.

David: You can measure that neurophysiologically, because if I have a group of people chanting and I wire them all up with EEG, recording equipment, we can show that actually the extent to which they're really synchronized with each other and attending to the particular chant is reflected in their neurophysiological activity very directly.

So there is something that is a universal feature, if you're doing something in a group, insofar as you're really engaged with it, jointly attending to it, that, in turn, actually correlates with the extent to which you like the experience or find it engaging.

Think of the best concert you’ve ever been to. I bet when you told your friends about it your story ended with, “...ya’ just had to be there”. Well, it looks like there might be something to that, scientifically. The delight of listening can transcend the sounds themselves - when we listen with other people.

Twenty Thousand Hertz is presented by Defacto Sound a sound design team dedicated to making television, film and games sound insanely cool. Find out more at defactosound.com.

This episode was produced by Jocelyn Frank and me. With help from Sam Schneble. It was sound designed and mixed by Nick Spradlin and Kenneth Gilbert. We’d like to thank Tommy Edison who you can find on youtube as the blind film critic and NYU professor David Poeppel for speaking with us. We also have a link to learn more about Dr. Poepple’s scream study on our website 20k.org.

Our soundtrack is from our friends at Musicbed who offer a highly curated catalog from great indie artists and composers. Like what you hear? Listen to all of the songs from our show and even license them for your own projects at music.20k.org. If you or someone you know is interested in sponsoring the show. Reach out through our website or drop us a note at hi@20k.org.

Finally, we’d really love to hear from you. What are your favorite sounds? ...and what sounds make you absolutely cringe? Tell us on Facebook or Twitter. Also, don’t forget to tell a friend to check out the show and give us a review in itunes.

You’ll find all of the links I mentioned in the show description.

Thanks for listening.

Recent Episodes

Foley: Hollywood’s hidden sound heroes

foley.jpg

This episode was written & produced by Abigail Tannebaum Sharon.

When you listen to a movie, everything the actor touches sounds crisp and clean. However, none of it was recorded on the movie set. Go behind the scenes with some of the unsung heroes of our movie experience. Featuring Fred Newman and Skywalker Sound’s Foley Team, John Roesch, Shelley Roden, and Scott Curtis.

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

A Great Mess by Watermark High
This Place by Watermark High
Brighter by Roary
A Fresh Start by Wildwood
Something Beautiful by Tim Halperin
Merry Folk by Generdyn
Flower Upon Dirt by Wilhelm
Washedway by Evlov (Theme Music)

Twenty Thousand Hertz is produced out of the studios of Defacto Sound and hosted by Dallas Taylor.

Follow Dallas on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube and LinkedIn.

Join our community on Reddit and follow us on Facebook.

Head over to Musicbed to find your perfect track. Be sure to use the promo code “20K” for 20% off any one purchase.

Consider supporting the show at donate.20k.org.

To get your 20K referral link and earn rewards, visit 20k.org/refer.

Sign up for Blue Apron and get your first 3 meals free at www.blueapron.com/20k.

View Transcript ▶︎

[Music start]

From Defacto Sound, you're listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz... The stories behind the world's most recognizable and interesting sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor. This is the story behind foley.

[movie foley clip]

Take a moment to really listen to a movie scene. Anything an actor touches, moves and walks on, it’s clean and super detailed. But what you think you’re hearing, isn’t always what it seems. And none of it was recorded on the movie set.

Foley is the live performance of custom-made sounds set against picture. These everyday sounds brought old-time radio to life [old radio show clip], and are the heartbeat of today’s movies.

Foley artists create these sounds out of everyday objects to make them feel real.

Fred: Foley came from this guy, Jack Foley, really invented it. They were going to Showboat and needed some sound effects and they used radio sound effects. The way they would do clomping shoes [clomping SFX] and water paddle wheels [water paddle SFX] and things like that. That was really invented then for the talkies.

That’s Fred Newman, and even he has a hard time describing what he does.

Fred: I don’t really have a title. I think scam artist is the best I’m just doing what I used to do as a kid. That’s what I do. I honk for a living, that’s what I do... I honk for a living.

Fred’s techniques offer a rare glimpse into the artform that inspires today’s foley artists. It’s really a hybrid of old radio and acting.

Fred: What I really do jumps over foley…

Making sounds are all in a day’s work for Fred. He performs sound effects live on the radio variety show “A Prairie Home Companion.”

[A Prairie Home Companion clip]

Fred: As I do so much of the sound effetcs live with an audience, but I always think must be discombobulating, but It works.

I asked Fred, what’s the best, most versatile tool he uses to make sounds on the fly?

Fred: The mouth ends up being the best soundmaker that I can come up with [mouth SFX]. Hearing is feeling and you’ve gotta give the feeling of it. That goes to the heart of acting and storytelling. You don’t want real, you want what works in the service of the story.

Fred’s a trailblazer when it comes to telling stories through sound. So I wanted to know what’s his most memorable moment on A Prairie Home Companion?

Fred: Just before we went out on stage, Garrison said, I think I’ll have Guy Noir go to a chiropractor, he says to me. I’m thinking “ok, undoubtedly we’re thinking spinal adjustment, ok what do I do?” So I’m walking out on stage and I grab one of those ribbed water bottles and a terry cloth towel, grabbed that and some tape that I put around it. And I walked out there, the bottles half full of water, “I’m going to take your left arm and put it over your head here,” and he grimaces a little bit, “I’m going to put my right arm over your chest, and I’m just gonna twist your back…” I didn’t know what it was going to sound like, but I put that water bottle up to the microphone and I just twisted it, but it had enough muffle of the terry cloth that it sounded internal and you hear [crunch] and the audience goes “Oh!” And they all turned in their seats, yeah, you nailed that sound! It was a roll of the dice.

We’ve got so many technological advancements today, yet at the very core of this experience is still just good ‘ol fashioned storytelling.

Fred: I jump back certainly to the older radio, but go back even further to just sitting around a fire telling stories [camp fire SFX], and all around the world most of these stories in most cultures were told with sound. We got to get back to where people just sit and listen. That’s in our DNA. It’s in our culture, that’s what bound us together.

As a master storyteller, Fred’s work is timeless. So when Hollywood needs an obscure, random, tailormade sound effect for a movie, Fred gets the call.

Fred: “We have got this film, do you do a frog?”... I said yeah I do a frog. “Can you do a frog throwing up a wedding ring?”...yeah ok [frog sound effect]. He goes, “ok you got the job, can you be here by 9:30?”

So I asked Fred, what does it take to be a foley artist?

Fred: They’re a curious mix of science and emotion. They have to be actors. They’re moving with the person they mimic that energy whether it’s footsteps or animal growls. But, it’s something in between music and acting. It’s this lovely not quite understood even by the people who do it.

From the golden age of radio, to the modern motion pictures, it’s foley sounds that immerse us in the story. To find foley artists on the cutting-edge of big time movie making, I reached out to these folks…

Shelley: I’m Shelley Roden, Foley Artist.

Scott: Scott Curtis, Foley Mixer.

John: John Roesch, Foley Artist and we’re all at Skywalker Sound.

Skywalker is one of the most well known audio facilities in the world.

John: There’s no limit to one's imagination and that’s very true with foley, also.

At Skywalker Sound, this team is responsible for supporting some of the greatest film stories of all time.

John: Star Wars was a watershed moment where you had combinations of sounds that were never even seen or heard before.

[Star Wars clip]

Shelley: Foley has evolved so much because the modern films are very loud and there’s a lot of music so, we have to think in terms of what we’re playing against and how much sonic real estate we have. So, we usually listen to the track and see what effects is done, what music is doing and what can we do to make this moment shine.

While these artists do improvise, and use their gut to guide them, there’s also a ton of planning and rehearsing that goes into their performances.

John: We are customized so what you’re seeing on screen at that moment, is indeed, hopefully the best possible sound that can be created. Just by the virtue of that live process.

Shelley: We work in a roomful of junk that we treasure. We pick up from the roadside or we’ve collected over the years. Or things that have been handed down to us from earlier foley artists we create sounds with them. And we also create sounds using our feet and our body and we play in the dirt and we play in water. It’s a very fun project.

To create these sounds, Foley artists need a very special space. John, Shelly, and Scott will tell us about their space after the break.

[music out]

MID ROLL

[music in]

To get a sense of how the foley artists create, you need to get a picture of the space.

Shelley: When you first walk into the Skywalker archives Foley Stage, Curtis’ wonderful face greeting you, and his giant board, he can see through the pane of glass, he can see us if he wants to, and then open the sound proof heavy, heavy, heavy door and you behold a gigantic room and a screen in front of you, you see a giant dirt pit and then something that looks like a tub on the right. And all these props, so that’s what our environment looks like.

I asked how they typically start a project...

Scott: We’re given a roadmap of what it is that we’re tasked to do for the day.

John: If it’s at the beginning of the film, basically we’ll establish the characterizations of the footsteps. Just for the record, probably the hardest thing to do correctly are footsteps.

Shelley: Yeah, especially because there are so many variables. The grit and how it interacts with the shoe [footstep SFX]. There’s the room mic and how much balance of the room mic Scott wants to use. [footstep with different mic SFX]

Scott: So we’re both doing two independent performances that have to sync up to picture…

Shelley: Perfectly.

John: There is no right or wrong, it’s just what our ears collectively go “that’s correct, that’s great” and that’s the beauty of working as a team.

To construct a place out-of-this-world, it takes painstaking attention to detail. On Finding Dory, Shelley tell us how she made the water-sound just right.

Shelley: We were tasked to determine how to manipulate water in many different ways because there’s a lot of water, there’s a lot of different fish so, we want to figure out how to make them all sound different.

I just went to the 99 Cent Store and I spent fifty dollars buying, for example, one of those old fashion juicers that you just put on top of an orange and push down. That was little baby Dory’s up and down movements because it allowed for the water to just escape in a certain way through the holes and it sounded really cute.

[baby Dory's swimming movements]

When we’re telling the story with our sound, then we can have a connection with the actor that helps us perform it appropiately.

Scott: Whatever the circumstances are that this particular character has, John and Shelley will essentially get in his head and take that character over and perform whatever is necessary as would that character.

John: And again through all the help, with Scott and then Shelley because she’ll do her characters the same way so we help support each other to where hopefully, you the audience, believe what are you seeing.

We want whatever you’re seeing on that screen be totally real and to that end you have to give it some soul. Certainly in the feet and then even in the props, we want to get the detail there. We want to create a world that works within itself and do it in such a way that you, the audience, don’t know we’ve done it. In fact, that’s the actual key rule of Foley, being that there is really no rules of Foley expect for this one, whatever we do has to be done believable in a way that you don’t know that we’ve done it.

Scott: Working with Shelley and John is so much fun it’s fantastic that we’re as collaborative as we are. I truly believe that that’s a main component as to why the material that we do generate is so, so good.

Part performance art, part storyteller, part science. You could say that these foley artists, mixer and editors are some of the unsung heroes of our cinematic experiences.

They carry on their craft with a quiet pride, and impact us in ways we’ll never see. Foley is subtle and often unconsciously noticed, however these tiny details can create a long and lasting impression on our stories.

Twenty Thousand Hertz is presented by Defacto Sound, a sound design team dedicated to making television, film, and games sound insanely cool. Find out more at defactosound.com.

This episode was produced and edited by Abigail Tannebaum Sharon and me. With help from Sam Schneble. It was sound designed and mixed by Jai Berger.

We’d like to thank Fred Newman and Skywalker Sound’s Foley team; John Roesch, Shelley Roden and Scott Curtis.

All of the music in the episode is from our friends at Musicbed. They do a lot more than license great indie music. Their website in loaded with awesome content like in depth interviews with creative minds, award winning short films and live sessions with their incredible musicians. Dive in at blog.musicbed.com.

We recently collaborated with Seeker on an animated version of our Space episode, and it's pretty awesome. Seeker celebrates science, technology and the future with amazing short docs, explainers and of course, animation. They tell all kinds of stories from around the world through the lens of science. They've got new videos every day, so go check them out at Seeker dot com, on twitter, facebook and at youtube dot com slash seeker. We’ll also be blasting this video on our social channels, so be sure to like Twenty Thousand Hertz. You can find us on Facebook and Twitter under 20korg.

If you or someone you know would like to advertise on the show, reach out through our website or at hi@20k.org. Finally, no matter what --- we couldn’t produce this show without you, and we need your help. So please, take a moment to share this show with your friends and rate us in iTunes. For those who want to help a little more, we’ve set up a donation page at donate.20k.org.

You’ll find all of these links in the show description.

Thanks for listening.

Recent Episodes

What do other planets sound like?

Photo credit: garysan97 via Foter.com / CC BY-SA

Photo credit: garysan97 via Foter.com / CC BY-SA

This episode was written & produced by Kevin Edds.

When we think about sound, our only reference is what it’s like here on Earth. What happens when we leave this thin blanket of atmosphere, and what do other planets sound like? Featuring Dr. Lori Glaze, Dr. Keith Noll, Dr. Scott Guzewich from NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center.

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

The Way Home by Tony Anderson
Unseen Entity by Convolv
Sirens by Jordan Critz
Our Sky by One Hundred Years
Survive by Watermark High
The Traveller by Matthew D Morgan

Washedway by Evlov (Theme Music)

Twenty Thousand Hertz is produced by Defacto Sound.

Subscribe on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to see our video series.

If you know what this week's mystery sound is, tell us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mystery.20k.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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View Transcript ▶︎

From Defacto Sound, you're listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz... The stories behind the world's most recognizable and interesting sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor. This is the story behind sound in our solar system.

[Star Trek SFX]

When you think about sound in space, classic films and television, like Star Trek, immediately come to mind.

[Star Trek theme]

From the ambient drones in Alien… [Alien drone SFX] to the galactic battle scenes in Star Wars… [Star Wars battle scene SFX] space truly is the final frontier in the study of sound.

Perhaps the best marketing tagline in movie history came from the Ridley Scott film, Alien: "In Space, no one can hear you scream." That phrase is true and not only because of the distance from Earth. It has to do with how sound travels.

Lori: I'm Dr. Lori Glaze. I'm the deputy director of the solar system exploration division at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center.

Lori oversees about 300 scientists that study all the planets and small bodies of our solar system.

Lori: You don't have sound in space because sound requires molecules. You have to be able to move the molecules with the sound waves, and without the molecules there, the sound just doesn't move. You can try and use your lungs to push the sound out of your mouth but it won't travel anywhere.

That tagline from Alien I mentioned earlier, no one actually heard that either... as it was never read as voiceover in the trailer. It was just text, silent text, perhaps meant to imitate the specific science that explains how sound travels… or doesn’t.

Keith: My name is Keith Noll. I am the chief of the planetary systems lab at Goddard Space Flight Center. I think I've studied almost every planet or satellite in the solar system that has an atmosphere.

Keith knows his stuff about planets, and how sound might actually be possible on them.

Keith: What is sound? It's the vibrations of molecules in the air. It's a pressure wave [pressure wave SFX]. Of course sound can be transmitted through any kind of physical medium. If you are in a swimming pool [diving/swimming SFX] you can still hear sound. That's being transmitted through water. Earthquakes [earthquake SFX] are essentially sound waves being transmitted through the solid earth.

Sound takes on many forms but the kind we're most familiar with is pressure waves moving through gas.

The most common example of how different gasses affect your vocal cords is the old party trick of breathing in a helium balloon.

[balloon inflate SFX]

As the gasses, you're pushing it back out of your lungs over your vocal cords, [voice on helium example] because the density is lower, the vibration frequencies end up being higher and that's why you sound like Mickey Mouse.

Let’s go from planet to planet in our solar system, starting closest to the sun, what would it sound like on their surface to our ears?

Lori: Places like… Mercury and these rocky bodies with no atmospheres would be similar to being in space. There would not be much sound if any.

Keith: Mercury is an airless body, so we're back to listening for Mercury quakes [quake SFX], essentially. That would be really the only source of sound.

And you could only hear these Mercury quakes [quake SFX] if your head was pressed up against the rock, because there’s no atmosphere for sound to travel through.

Next up, Venus.

Lori: In my mind, what sound would be like on the surface, because you have this really dense atmosphere, much denser than Earth's, the sound would be more like or tend toward what things sound like when you're under water [underwater SFX].

If you could imagine something in between air and water, that kind of density, you're running your hand through that and you would feel that.

[continue underwater SFX]

If you were to just materialize on the surface in that environment of 900 degrees Fahrenheit and a hundred times our atmospheric pressure, you would first be crushed [crushing SFX] and then you would probably just burn up completely [burning SFX].

Keith: One thing we do know about Venus is that is has lightning, so you might hear thunder [thunder SFX].

I wonder what other things, like my voice, might sound like. [watery SFX on Dallas' voice] I’m on Venus in this ethereal world that’s a mix between a gas-like atmosphere and water. I’m almost floating, but yet it’s not as restrictive as being submerged in water.

My voice… The thunder… It’s all slightly muffled and distorted as it travels through the thick atmosphere.

[Earth SFX]

Now we’re home: Earth. We’re not going to stay here for long, but it’s worth mentioning the amazing diversity of sound on our planet. The sandy deserts… [sand and wind SFX] lush forests… [trees rustling and bird SFX] the sound of the ocean [ocean waves SFX], both on the surface… and below [underwater SFX]. It’s a rich soundscape, because our ears are perfectly in tune with it… More on that later.

Now Mars. And here’s where it gets interesting since Mars has been the subject of so much fascination for thousands of years. It’s one of the best places where life might have, or could exist.

Lori: Sound on Mars is going to be the opposite direction of Venus because the atmosphere on Mars is very, very thin compared to Earth's so there's just not very many molecules and sound requires molecules.

Countless movies have been made about Mars, including the Hollywood mega-hit The Martian, starring a stranded astronaut portrayed by Matt Damon.

Keith: Loved the movie. It was fun to watch, but it's not the Mars we know, it's a very different Mars.

[The Martian clip]

So the real Mars isn't anything like that, but Mars does have an atmosphere, albeit a thin one.

So that storm scene wasn’t quite accurate.

Keith: You wouldn’t necessarily hear the wind itself… You would hear the dust that's being picked up [dust SFX] and it would be banging against the faceplate of your spacesuit.

We also reached out to Scott Guzewich, a Research Astrophysicist at NASA.

Scott: So I enjoyed that movie a lot, but the atmosphere as it was shown was not scientifically right.

Basically, the problem with what you saw in the movie there where the atmosphere is so thick that it's picking up boulders and knocking things over [storm SFX]. It's just not possible. I mean the wind speed can get very high, as high as hurricane force at the surface sometimes.

So imagine a hundred mile per hour wind on Earth, if you're standing in a hurricane, obviously you'd be almost blown off your feet.

If you were standing on the surface there in Mars and you put your hand out in that hundred mile per hour wind, you would feel it, but it would feel like a gentle breeze [breeze SFX] here on the surface of Earth.

That sounds pretty cool. Standing in a hurricane but it only feels like a soft wind. But you’d die pretty quickly right?

Scott: You wouldn't die instantaneously but you'd want to be getting into shelter as fast as possible. First, the atmospheric pressure is dramatically lower than it is here on the surface of Earth. So, all the water in your body would attempt to boil, basically, instantaneously [water SFX]. The water covering your eye, the water in your mouth, and even the water in your cells and your blood. That wouldn't kill you right away but it would be very uncomfortable immediately. You could probably survive for a few tens of seconds, maybe a minute. You could potentially get a very rapid dose to frostbite on your entire body. Again, you wouldn't necessarily die right away, but it'd be quick.

And how about sound. What could we expect to hear?

Scott: Our ears aren't really designed to work in that sort of very near vacuum sort of atmosphere. So we wouldn't hear too much, maybe if you were scuffling along on the surface [gentle scuffling SFX], you could maybe very faintly hear that sound as you were clawing at the ground and gasping for air [gasping for air SFX].

The temperature obviously is colder in general, so that drives a slower speed of sound, and it seems that a lower speed of sound would tend to lower the pitch, [lowering pitch on Scott's voice] make your voice sound deeper… but then the atmospheric density would kind of go to raise your pitch [raising pitch on Scott's voice], so it seems like the pitch probably balances out.

If voices won’t carry far, how about a piano?

[piano music]

Scott: The very high-pitched, high frequency noise at the far right end of the piano, you probably wouldn't hear that at all, but maybe the deepest bass sounds that the piano makes, you might be able to just pick those up with a microphone if it was sensitive enough.

We’ve explored the first four planets of our solar system, and learned some of the ways their unique atmospheres and conditions shape their soundscape, or lack thereof. We’ll continue our exploration of sound to the outer reaches of our solar system, after the break.

[music out]

MIDROLL

[music in]

On to Jupiter, the King of Planets.

What’s interesting is that Jupiter doesn’t have a solid surface. Hard to imagine but the whole planet is made up of gas that just keeps getting denser and denser—eventually becoming a liquid the closer you get to its core. The pressure and temperature variations are what cause those beautiful swirling bands.

Keith: So the interesting thing on Jupiter is that the pressure and the temperatures where the cloud decks are, are actually not so inhospitable.

Cloud decks?

Keith: So you've got these very distinct cloud layers in Jupiter's atmosphere. So y’know, it's just fun to imagine. What would it sound like? Would you get these echos?... because you have these super powerful lightning bolts, more powerful than anything on the Earth, so you'd have really, really loud thunder [thunder SFX]. You'd hear echoes of echoes of echoes [thunder echoes] just back and forth. It's fun to think about.

How about the rest of the outer planets?

Keith: Jupiter and Saturn, I think you could consider to be pretty similar. Uranus and Neptune are pretty similar to each other. So all four atmospheres are primarily hydrogen and helium.

So if you tried to speak on any of them your voice would be higher?

Keith: I think so, cause the atmosphere is 75% hydrogen which is even less dense than helium and the rest is helium. I think we'd all be Mickey Mouse on Jupiter and Saturn.

And how about our old friend Pluto? Anything different?

Keith: It is probably the thinnest bound atmosphere that we know. But, it also looks really complex. It's got layers. It's pretty different. Mainly because the temperature is so low. Nitrogen there is an ice. Carbon monoxide is mostly an ice. That's probably the weirdest, most different kind of place in terms of thinking about how composition, temperature, pressure would affect the sound.

We’ve covered the planets and acknowledged our old friend Pluto, and it’s becoming clear that detecting sounds throughout our solar system is pretty difficult. So I’m curious, why is it so easy for us here on Earth?

Keith: Our ears are good for a very specific environment. They've evolved. Once you take them out of that they're probably not exactly the tool you would want. If you built an audio receiver and sent it to all these places… What could you hear that the human ear could hear, and more interestingly, what could you hear that the human ear would never be able to hear?

That's what I want to know.

Surprisingly, we have never recorded another planetary body with a traditional microphone.

So what does the future hold for us to truly be able to test our sound theories on other planets?

Scott: There is going to be a microphone on the next Mars Rover. The rover launched in 2020, it's supposed to have a microphone on it. We expect that it'll hear a few different things. The sound as the rover drives across the surface for example, will be transmitted both through the atmosphere and through the body of the rover itself. You should be able to hear the wheels kind of crunch along on the sand and on the rocks.

We’re so accustomed on Earth to hearing sound associated with what we see. But in true outer space no one can hear a titanic supernova explosion, or a hurtling asteroid smash into the moon, or even… hear you scream.

Lori: How rare is sound in the known universe? It's pretty rare. Even just in our known solar system, places like the moon and Mercury and these rocky bodies with no atmospheres would be similar to being in space. There would not be much sound, if any.

When we think of Earth as special in terms of being able to even support life, it goes much further than that. It’s one of the true places in the universe where sound is abundant and has impacted that life on an evolutionary level.

Scott: If you look at life on Earth, being able to hear something seems to be a very big advantage biologically. From very simple animal species [forest animal SFX], there is a benefit to being able to hear sound. Because you can become aware of either predators [growl SFX], or prey [squeal SFX], or food sources. So if I were to really get out my speculation hat, y’know alien life in the universe would probably have an advantage to hear things also... in whatever planet or ocean or atmosphere they lived in.

However, these aliens might perceive sound in a completely different way, a way that’s in tune with their own environment, and perhaps hear completely different frequencies.

When you think of space, it’s mostly… space. Where no medium exists to transport sound. Yet, it’s perfect for… light. Light fills the universe, but sound does not.

Keith: The whole universe is connected by light. Light anywhere in the universe can travel to anywhere else in the universe, but with sound you really are truly in different islands of sound and they're all isolated because they're all stuck in this space that doesn't transmit sound. It transmits light perfectly well but not sound.

Sound as we perceive and understand it, is so unbelievably rare, but it’s abundant right here, where we are, within this thin blanket of atmosphere. But if we travel straight up, it goes away very quickly. It gets quieter, and quieter… until it’s gone.

Twenty Thousand Hertz is presented by Defacto Sound, a sound design team dedicated to making television, film, and games sound insanely cool. Find out more at defactosound.com

This episode was produced and edited by Kevin Edds and me. With help from Sam Schneble. It was sound designed and mixed by Colin DeVarney.

We’d like to thank Dr. Lori Glaze, Dr. Keith Noll, and Dr. Scott Guzewich for speaking with us.

We’d also like to thank Elizabeth Zubritsky, Aries Keck, Nancy Jones, Richard Melnick, and Kevin Hartnett at NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center.

The music you’ve been hearing is from our friends at Musicbed. They license music from great indie rock and pop artists, as well as classics like Johnny Cash and Jerry Lee Lewis. Head over to Musicbed dot com to find your perfect track.

If you or someone you know would like to advertise on the show, please reach out, and we’d be happy to give you more information. You can contact us at hi at 20k dot org or through the website.

Finally, no matter what --- we couldn’t produce this show without you, our listeners, and we need your help. So please, take a moment to share this show with your friends on Facebook, Twitter, in-person, or wherever. For those who want to help a little more, we’ve set up a donation page. Every bit helps us bring these amazing stories to our listeners, so if you love the show and have the means, please consider visiting donate.20k.org.

You’ll find all of these links in the show description. Thanks for listening.

Recent Episodes

Dolls That Talk (and some that listen)

IMG_4163.jpg

This episode was written & produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows.

Talking dolls have been around for over a century, but the fascination with making inanimate objects seem human reaches back into our early history. What is it about creating a companion that can interact with us, especially for a child, that fascinates us so? And what will that look like as our technology continues to advance? Featuring Carlene Stephens, Curator for the Smithsonian National Museum of American History and Claire Gartland of the Electronic Privacy Information Center.

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

Washedway by evolv
Simple Things by Dexter Britain
Summer Time by Night Fevers
Garden Graves by Nikolaus Meyer
Crossing by Nikolaus Meyer
Burning Man by SOLIS
Lethal Shot by Generdyn
The Time to Run: Finale by Dexter Britain

Twenty Thousand Hertz is produced by Defacto Sound.

Subscribe on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to see our video series.

If you know what this week's mystery sound is, tell us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mystery.20k.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Support the show and get ad-free episodes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠20k.org/plus⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Follow Dallas on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠Facebook⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Join our community on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Reddit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Music courtesy of Musicbed.

Defacto Sound’s website was by Mast & Pocketknife, and be sure to tell your friends in the TV, Film, & Game industries all about it.

Sign up for Blue Apron and get your first 3 meals free at www.blueapron.com/20k.

Thanks for listening!

View Transcript ▶︎

[Music start]

From Defacto Sound, you're listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz... The stories behind the world's most recognizable and interesting sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor. This is the story behind dolls that talk, and some that listen.

[talking dolls montage]

Talking dolls have been around for over a century. But the fascination with making inanimate objects seem human reaches back into our early history.

What is it about creating a companion that can interact with us, especially for a child, that fascinates us?

One of the first people to create a talking doll was Thomas Edison, in the late 1800’s. He used a small version of his phonograph and worked with toymakers to make a doll that would house it.

Carlene: My name is Carlene Stephens. I'm a curator in the division of Work and Industry at the National Museum of American History.

We have an Edison talking doll in our collection here. It's one of only a handful that have survived. Ours for some reason has no hair, no clothes except shoes and socks. It's also a very heavy doll. I try to picture little girls or little boys carrying this thing around, and the doll is almost as big as a toddler.

The doll’s voices were on wax cylinders that couldn’t be mass-produced, so reach one was recorded individually. Every doll featured one of several nursery rhymes performed by young women. Here is a restored version of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star [Twinkle Twinkle Little Star clip].

Carlene: Untrained teenage voices shouting into primitive audio machines resulted in some pretty screechy, horrifyingly screechy records.

If you didn't know the nursery rhyme the words could be unintelligible. It was that bad.

Regardless of the quality of their performances, these women might have been the first professional voiceover artists.

Carlene: But the real purpose of the doll to be able to speak these nursery rhymes didn't succeed.

An Evening Star Article at the time had the headline: “DOLLS THAT TALK: THEY WOULD BE MORE ENTERTAINING IF YOU COULD UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY SAY.”

In addition to being not at all intelligible, they often broke. Many of them were returned...

Carlene: The fragile nature of the phonograph itself, the mechanism inside, the heaviness of the doll, the large size of the doll. The dolls didn't sell well either.

In all, Edison’s doll was a massive commercial failure.

It wasn’t until 1960 that we had a true successor to Thomas Edison’s talking doll. And this one was commercially successful. Her name...Chatty Cathy.

[Chatty Cathy commerical clip]

Some people were unnerved with having a talking doll in their house. The Twilight Zone even made an episode about a murderous talking doll...and get this...they hired the same actress, June Foray, who voiced the actual Chatty Cathy doll.

[Twilight Zone Talky Tina clip]

Spoiler alert...that’s exactly what Talky Tina did.

But cultural discomfort didn’t hinder toy progress. Once we had a doll that could successfully talk, there was another element to add, animation.

In the 1980’s, Ken Forsee, a former Disney animatronics artist, created Teddy Ruxpin. Teddy’s slogan? The world’s first animated talking toy.

While at the time this animated bear seemed like exciting new technology, it actually was in line with an incredibly old tradition of clockwork machines built to move on their own, also known as automatons.

Carlene: As soon as the clock was invented, around the year 1300, it was immediately apparent that with that kind of mechanism it was possible to do other things like animate figures. Nobles employed very talented mechanicians to build little figures for banquet tables. You would wind them up and they would roll across the table [wind up SFX] and do various things.

I once saw a photograph of a full sized animated bear. The exterior was bearskin, but inside there was an animated set of clockwork and that probably dated from the 17th century.

[Teddy Ruxpin clip]

In the 19080’s version, the child could insert a cassette tape into Teddy’s back and he would move his mouth along with the words that played [continue Teddy Ruxpin clip]. Along with the audio track, the tape had a second, secret track [control track SFX]. It was this control track that actually made his eyes and mouth move in time with the words, as if telling the story.

But some regular tapes could be played through Teddy and even a few would make him move...especially heavy metal for some reason [heavy metal clip]. How they did that is still a mystery to me.

This brings us to a different tradition. One of using technology for unintended purposes. In the 21st century, dolls can not only talk to you, but they can also listen. And some of them might be telling others what you’re saying. Find out who could be listening in on your secrets, after the break.

[music out]

MID ROLL

[music in]

Like most everything else, there’s a twenty first century high-tech version of the talking doll. One that isn’t just designed to keep your kid company...it also gathers information.

Meet my friend Cayla.

[Cayla commerical clip]

Claire: The doll asks what the child's name is, what their mom and dad's name is, where they go to school. Where they live.

My name is Claire Gartland, and I am the Director of the Consumer Privacy Project at the Electronic Privacy Information Center, EPIC. My organization filed a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission against the manufacturer of the smart toy, My Friend Cayla.

With a Bluetooth connection that accesses the internet through an app on your app, this doll can not only ask your child questions, she saves the answers.

Claire: These conversations, with this super personal customized information, is being recorded, and it's being sent to third parties.

The biggest concern that they’ve raised, is that there now could be a database of voice recordings that’s accessible by law enforcement and national security officials.

Claire: These dolls are marketed to be a child's best friend. The advertising says, "You'll be amazed at what Cayla can talk about [Cayla commerical clip]. She comes pre-programmed with all kinds of phrases and responses to really intimate, sensitive questions like whether the child is pretty or why her father wasn't able to make it to her soccer game, all kinds of really sensitive conversations that a child shouldn't be having with some company.

[Cayla clip]

Another major concern is security. The doll’s way too easy to pair with your device.

Claire: There are no authentication requirements for a user. When she is powered on, she is discoverable in your Bluetooth connection menu as My Friend Cayla, so it's clearly a child's toy. You don't even have to have her application downloaded on your phone. Anyone can connect to her if there's not an existing Bluetooth connection available. The doll can be used essentially as a Bluetooth headset.

I had that experience myself when I was connected with her and playing around with her interactive features. I received a phone call to my phone, and Cayla, the doll, started ringing.

A phone can connect to the doll from 50 feet away through a brick wall. It would be really easy for the caller to essentially speak to a child through that doll. And let’s remember that the real problem here besides the fact that that’s just creepy is that parents are not told about this.

Feels a little sci-fi, and then you have to remind yourself that this is actually happening right now.

And if this is happening right now, what’s just down the road? Imagine a future where androids are created to be companions to our children. They can walk, talk, listen and answer.

What does that future doll look like in your mind? Is it a little scary? Aside from those pesky privacy concerns, there’s something else at work here.

It’s called the uncanny valley and it’s a hypothesis put forth in an 1970 essay by then Robotics Professor Masahiro Mori. The basic concept is that there’s a spectrum: One one end, robots that look and act like humans which we find appealing. And on the other end, robots that look and act nothing at all like humans which we find cute.

But the spectrum sags in the middle forming the uncanny valley. Carlene Stephens explains:

Carlene: The study shows that there's a curve. Up here the thing looks, talks, moves a whole lot like a human and this might be C3PO, roughly speaking. And up here doesn't have any resemblance. It's R2D2. Down in here there's this area where people get freaked out.

The C3PO: appealing. R2D2: appealing for completely different reasons. Down in here might be the Edison talking doll [Edison talking doll clip]. Just creepy. If you look at our automaton, creepy. It's down in here where people have that reaction. This is the uncanny valley.

Getting as close as possible to human and missing and being just repulsive in so many ways. The early efforts to anthropomorphize robots, those fall into that uncanny valley. People start looking and start noticing the shortfalls rather than the excellence in almost getting there.

We’re still a long way off from creating toys that fully replicate human behavior. But as quickly as technology has developed over the past century, that future might not be so distant.

Just think about the difference between the Edison doll [Edison talking doll clip] and My Friend Cayla [Cayla clip].

What’s next for talking dolls? As creepy as they are, we still keep buying them, so I don’t think they’re going away. What are they going to be like in 10, 20 years?

By connecting them to the internet, have we already crossed the line? That makes them smarter than us. Do we really want that?

Twenty Thousand Hertz is presented by Defacto Sound. A sound design team dedicated to making television, film and games sound insanely cool. Find out more at defactosound.com. This episode was produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows and me. With help from Sam Schneble. It was sound designed and mixed by Kenneth Gilbert.

Thanks to Carlene Stephens from the Smithsonian National Museum of of American History, Claire Gartland from the Electronic Privacy Information Center and Teddy Ruxpin for being my bff in the ‘80s.

[Teddy Ruxpin clip]

The music you’ve hearing is from Musicbed. They represent more than 650 great artists ranging from indie rock and hip hop to classical and electronic. Head over to music.20k.org to hear our exclusive playlist.

Mast created our art and Pocketknife built our website, which you can find at 20k.org. Connect with us on facebook and twitter. Our handle is 20korg on both. Consider supporting the show. You can do this by visiting donate.20k.org. Another thing that makes a massive difference is to text all your friends and tell them to immediately subscribe. If you love this show, surely you’ll have a few friends who will as well.

All of these links are down in the show description.

Thanks for listening.

Recent Episodes

Car Sounds: Crafting every click, rev, and beep

cars.jpg

This episode was written & produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows.

Some car sounds are more obvious like the horn or engine... but what about the not-obvious-until-you-point-them-out sounds like the hollow thud of a trunk or the click of a latch? The sounds a car makes are so closely associated with quality, so how, exactly, do car makers handle this aspect of the driving experience? Featuring Car Enthusiast & Sound Mixer Brian Garfield, David Zenlea from Road & Track, and Tom Teknos from Ford.

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

"A Million Years" by Awake or Sleeping
"Boy with a Kite" by Joe Moralez
"Reach" by  Roary
"Way Out - Instrumental" by  Could Ever
"Take me Home" by  The Analog Affair

Twenty Thousand Hertz is produced by Defacto Sound.

Subscribe on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to see our video series.

If you know what this week's mystery sound is, tell us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠mystery.20k.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Support the show and get ad-free episodes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠20k.org/plus⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Follow Dallas on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠TikTok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, ⁠Facebook⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Join our community on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Reddit⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Defacto Sound’s website by Mast & Pocketknife, and be sure to tell your friends in the TV, Film, & Game industries all about it.

View Transcript ▶︎

Hey everyone, it takes a lot to make this show happen. So if you love this show and want to help us out, please consider supporting us at donate.20k.org. Thanks.

[Music start]

From Defacto Sound, you're listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz... The stories behind the world's most recognizable and interesting sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor. This is the story behind why your car sounds the way it does.

[car engine start SFX]

Some car sounds are more obvious, like the horn [horn SFX] or the engine [engine SFX]. But what about the not obvious until you point them out sounds like the sounds of the blinker [blinker SFX], the satisfying “spsss” sound of opening the trunk [truck opening SFX] or the click [door lock SFX] of locking the door.

Every sound a car makes is important to the experience of driving and automakers know this.

David: Every sound in a car has been carefully engineered. That becomes more and more the case as you go up in price. My name is David Zenlea. I'm a features editor at Road and Track.

The door sound for instance, there’s gaskets on either side of your door and the thicker a gasket a car has, that insulates a car from outside noises but it also will affect the way that car sounds, the door sounds when it closes.

The gasket is that black rubber strip on the inside of your door frame. Here’s what an older car sounds like without much thought given to the gasket [old car door SFX].

And here’s what a newer car sounds like with the sound of the gasket in mind [new car door SFX].

David: Automakers know that consumers are sensitive to noises like that and they are very careful about making sure that it meets consumer expectations.

Keep in mind, this is the first sound you encounter when you test drive a car. It’s a subliminal selling point. If the car door sounded loose or unpleasant or dissonant, you’d automatically make assumptions about the quality of the rest of the car. So, this is the care companies first opportunity to communicate to you how well built this car is.

Brian: As an enthusiast and a consumer the thunk of a door is important to me. A lot of German cars have a very heavy door or a thunk to it, it feels solid [heavy car door thunk SFX]. Every time I get in and out of a car that doesn’t sound like that [light car door thunk SFX], it doesn't seem as nice of a car to me. [heavy door thunk and car honk SFX]

My name is Brian Garfield and I am a car enthusiast and amateur racer. At an early age I could not wait to drive. Growing up, both my parents used to motocross which is a form of ameteur racing. I used to race an original Mini Cooper.

Because my parents were automotive enthusiasts, there were always car magazines around the house. Car and Driver, Road and Track, Motor Trend, Autoweek which I always read. And in about the 90’s I got into autocrossing like my parents did in the 60’s and I got them back into it. So we actually did it as a family and we still do it as a family.

Just like when I grew up, all of us are enthusiasts. My younger son drives a Mini Cooper and my older son drives the BMW with a performance exhaust. My wife drives that Subaru STI and I’m driving the Miata with an X5. That’s where we like to spend time and that’s what we like to do as a hobby.

Many people’s live revolve around cars. So what does a certified car guy listen to while he drives?

Brian: I can be entertained by the sound of the motor [car motor SFX]. I like to hear the car and stay connected to it. It’s not uncommon for an enthusiast to drive for hours at a time without listening to the radio, without listening to anything but the sound of the motor. [contine car motor SFX]

For decades, automobile enthusiasts have had a fascination with how cars sound.

David: The very first issue of Road and Track which started in the late 50s has advertisements for exhaust headers and special mufflers and this was popular throughout the 60s. Some muscle cars like the 1970 GTO [GTO SFX] had an option where you could pull like a little lever and make a louder noise [continue GTO SFX]. We've had a long time of sort of editing or engineering the way an engine sounds. The way an exhaust pipe sounds [exhaust pipe SFX] is a very careful engineering process because they're trying to produce a certain sound and trying to edit out certain sounds, but the electronic editing of engine sounds is a little bit more recent.

Yep. You heard that correctly. Electronic editing of engine sounds. But what does that really mean?

David: The way that automakers go about creating engine noises differs and it’s an evolving technology. They basically take a recording of the engine, they take out things that they think a customer wouldn't want to hear and then they play that back through the speakers inside the cabin.

While bringing the sound of the engine back into the cabin can add to the visceral experience of driving...some car enthusiasts are a little uneasy about the practice.

Brian: I’m kind of torn, as an enthusiast I appreciate that I can hear it even more raw. And if you were to put the windows down you wouldn’t hear it as well as if you put the windows up. That’s how you know it’s being pumped into the car. As an enthusiast you might go, “Wait a minute”, but as a lay person you’re like “Wow, there’s a neat car sound.”

David: The first one that really drew the ire of automotive enthusiasts was the BMW M5, the current generation. It debuted in 2012 [BMW M5 engine SFX]. It basically plays the soundtrack of its engine over a stereo inside the car and if you pull the right fuse you basically will cut the engine noise from inside the car.

One of the reasons they do this is that cars are so much better insulated than they used to be. Features like dual pane glass, which are great for blocking out road noise and wind, block everything else out too.

Brian: In luxury cars, they’ll do things to quiet them down, but you’ll still hear that deep low frequency sound from an 8 cylinder and the customer wants to know it’s an 8 cylinder. They want to be able to say say “Here’s my such and such car, it has a V8.” [V8 SFX]

Less road noise also mean less engine noise. And for engineers, playing the engine soundtrack over the car stereo was a workaround.

David: Performance cars, in particular, you want to hear what’s going on in the engine [car engine FSX] so they’ve had to figure out ways to sort of pipe that back in. The other reason of doing this electronically is that modern engines don’t sound as conventionally good as older engines.

Back when V8's were synonymous with sports cars cars with bigger displacement engines and more cylinders tend to make a deeper noise [deep car engine SFX]. It’s very hard to disconnect the buyer impulse from all those things that automakers have been driving into us for many years. It’s something we've come to associate with power and masculinity and wealth.

This seems like a lot of effort for engineers to put into something that is secondary to the function of the car. Just how important is the engine sound for buyers?

David: The sound of an engine is, a selling point for any car. What customers want to hear from their engine, how much they want to hear from their engine, depends on the kind of car that that person is buying. The automaker first has to figure out, "Well, what do people actually want to hear?" Then they have to actually getting into tuning the engine sound.

The unique feeling you get from a car, whether that’s power, safety, fun or practicality is no accident. Automakers know that the way a car sounds is critical to this experience. What factors do they consider when determining how a particular vehicle should sound, and what tricks and tools do they use to achieve that sound? We’ll find out, after the break.

[music out]

MIDROLL

[music in]

A lot of thought and care goes into designing the sounds cars make. Automakers design the sound of a car to meet consumer expectations, but just what are the factors and characteristics they consider when designing those sounds?

Tom: For a luxury car, you're going to want the sound to be a lot more refined, smoother, at a lower volume [luxury car SFX]. For a sports car you'd want it to be a lot rougher with a lot more character and at a much higher volume [sports car SFX].

My name is Tom Teknos. I’m an NVH technical specialist at Ford motor company.

NVH stands for noise, vibration, and harshness. Noise and vibration, those are just what you’d think. Harshness is the term they used to use to describe ride quality, but now, it deals more with the noise and vibration of the powertrain.

The powertrain is the set up that makes the car go and going can be noisy.

[car driving SFX]

Ford, and other automakers, have to figure out what customers expect in their cars and how they’re going to give it to them accurately and consistently.

Tom: You don't want to have a four cylinder Focus [four cylinder SFX] sounding like a Ferrari [Ferrari SFX]. Likewise, you don't want to have a really powerful sports car [sports car SFX] that sounds like a golf cart [gold cart SFX]. That's kind of the whole point of our jobs is to make sure that the character does match the performance level of the vehicle.

The automaker, it seems, would have a lot to figure out. And it can get really complicated, really fast.

Tom: Every different vehicle class and every engine family is gonna have a different characteristic sound. So, just corporate wide at Ford, there are ranges that are established. We call them part of the DNA of that particular vehicle. Then those ranges kind of define how loud the engine sound should be during acceleration. What's the basic character, so that when we execute a program, it's done consistently year after year and model after model?

Sure, but how exactly do they do that?

Tom: We pipe in a significant amount of engine sound into the cabin using the audio system. It's completely synthetically generated, but it sounds so true. You can shape it to make it sound however you want. You digitally generate the sound first from your desktop, then once you've arrived at a sound that you're happy with. You think, "Okay, this is the right character for this vehicle.” Then that's migrated into the vehicle.

All of this is to make sure that the driver’s are getting real time feedback on how the engine is working. Even if that has to be amplified or even reproduced.

Tom: I'm not exactly sure where this is gonna end up going, but one thing I know for sure is that vehicles that don't produce a lot of noise naturally and are performance oriented vehicles, industry wide, everyone is using this electronic sound enhancement.

Hybrid and electric cars are clearly becoming more and more popular. And it’s almost certain that this trend will continue. As new generations grow up without the roar of a gasoline engine, what will they want to hear?

Brian: Nostalgic to me is still a V8 because that’s a muscle car. The V8 is synonymous with power, with strength, with a cool sound. I think that’s still going to define nostalgic for a while. But, the same way that our language changes over time, our definition of performance through our ears will change. As more and more things become electric, the electric motors will become a sign of performance.

These new engines produce a completely different and much quieter sound. Which creates a whole new set of questions. Will these cars be so quiet that you can’t hear them coming up behind you? Do we need artificial sound for safety? And what about future generations who drive electric cars, will they still associate the sound of the V8 with performance and power? Will a quiet whirl [whirl SFX] become the new sought after sound?

Twenty Thousand Hertz is presented by Defacto Sound. A sound design team dedicated to making television, film and games sound insanely cool. Find out more at defactosound.com. This episode was produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows and me. With help from Sam Schneble and Stephanie Wilkes. It was sound designed and mixed by Nick Spradlin.

Special thanks to Brian Garfield, David Zenlea at Road and Track and Tom Teknos at Ford. All of the music you've been hearing in in this episode is from our friends at Musicbed. The track you’re listening to currently is Take Me Home by The Analog Affair. Musicbed has been licensing music by great indie artists like this since 2011. They have thousands of songs from dozens of genres. Check them out at musicbed.com.

Connect with us on facebook and on twitter and tell us what sounds you like and what sounds you dislike in your own car.

Finally, we need your help to keep this podcast on the air. Consider supporting the show. You can do this by visiting donate.20k.org. You can find this link in the show description.

Thanks for listening.

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Audio Descriptions: Not just for the visually impaired

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This episode was written & produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows.

Did you know there might be a track of audio on your favorite movies and television shows that describe all of the actions on screen? This technology was designed for the visually impaired, but it could be used for the masses. It’s still not as widely provided as some would hope. Meet the consumers and activists fighting for a better-described tomorrow. Featuring Tommy Edison, Robert Kingett, and Colleen Connor.

MUSIC FEATURED IN THIS EPISODE

Washedway by Evolv
Unspoken by Am Architect
Joining Hands by Evolv
Clear Blake by Ewing
You Are Not What You Think You Are Evolv

Twenty Thousand Hertz is produced by Defacto Sound.

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View Transcript ▶︎

[Music start]

From Defacto Sound, you're listening to Twenty Thousand Hertz... The stories behind the world's most recognizable and interesting sounds. I'm Dallas Taylor. This is the story behind a cool hidden audio track in movies and TV.

[The Matrix clip]

Tommy Edison is a successful film critic. And there’s one famous movie he just couldn’t ever get through.

Tommy: Everybody was like “Oh, you gotta see The Matrix. It’s the greatest movie in the world it’s so great, blah, blah, blah.” And I must of watched it half a dozen times and got nowhere. Maybe 10, 12, 14 minutes in and that was it.

But Tommy’s movie going experiences tend to be different than most.

Tommy: I’m known on Youtube as the Blind Film Critic.

That’s right, Tommy is blind and a well known film critic on Youtube. When he discovered audio description, everything changed.

[The Matrix clip with audio descriptions]

That was from the audio described version of The Matrix. When you watch a movie online, you usually have multiple audio options. These audio options can include different languages like Spanish or French. But in this case it’s a track describing what’s happening on screen for those with visual impairments.

Tommy: Then I understood what made this movie so great. And what was so special about it. That was the thing that really turned me onto audio description. It sort of changed my life. For example, [Daredevil clip] Daredevil I tried to watch the first couple of episodes without audio description and I could not have been more lost. And then they got it together and got the audio description on. And like I knew the flashbacks were happening, all different kinds of things and it made so much more sense. Plus the descriptions of the fights are incredible.

[Daredevil audio description clip]

Many online shows don’t have audio descriptions. And even Daredevil, a Netflix original series about a blind superhero, had to have activists rally to have it described.

Robert: It was kind of strange because I thought, you guys are making a show that features a blind character, why is it not accessible to the blind?

My name is Robert Kingett. I am a journalist, author and essayist. I was legally blind until my last birthday, when I had a glaucoma attack. Now I don’t see light, I don’t see shadows, I don’t see anything at all. You tend to rely a lot more on your vision than you might realize, so I kind of have to learn everything over again.

Whether it’s your everyday life or while consuming entertainment, when you’re blind, your understanding of what’s going on can hinge completely on your sense of hearing.

Robert: Hearing is everything. The first time I watched a TV show with description, it was That 70’s Show. And from then on I was hooked. I was like, “Oh now I get why my sighted people around me are laughing, ok.”

Federal law requires major television networks to each provide 50 hours a year of visually impaired accessible shows. But that’s only in the top sixty markets. And there are no requirements at all for online streaming platforms like Netflix or Hulu.

Robert: I don’t have cable in my house, I have an Apple TV. And I had to hunt and hunt for a movie that has audio description. In about ten years or so I don’t think many people are going to be actually watching TV, I think everything is going to be online. So, let’s try to get ahead of the curve and make things accessible for streaming platforms. And the law is not in the twenty first century as of yet.

More and more people are tuning in online. And even the shows and movies that had audio descriptions elsewhere, like on broadcast for BLU-Ray, didn’t offer the track during streaming.

Robert: I was trying really hard to at least say, "Okay, well here's the TV show that has has audio description. Why can't you just reach out to the studios and get the track and then layer it on as a separate track on your service?"

And for years they said, "We did not have the technical means." They said that, "We don't know where to begin."

Regardless of how much people at a company might want to help, cutting through all of the bureaucracy to get any corporate entity to spend money can be difficult.

Robert: The American Council of the Blind jumped in so... in a settlement, Netflix has agreed to describe all of their original content, and they will make efforts to get the tracks from movies and TV shows, if they exist. And now that it is on Netflix, Hulu should have no technical problem. If it's on Netflix, then it can occur on YouTube and other places.

The demand for audio descriptions is finally on the rise. But it’s a relatively new technology and there are still no real standards for it. But that’s beginning to change. We’ll get to that, in just a minute.

[music out]

MIDROLL

[music in]

Audio descriptions are becoming more and more common in media, but it’s still a relatively new development with little standardization. Fortunately, people like Colleen Connor are working to change that.

Colleen: I started a business called Audio Description Training Retreats with a woman who has been a describer for about 10 years. We are training people to be audio describers for media and art for the blind. We want to create a certification. We want to create at least a standard of audio describers coming up with some sort of rules and some sort of curriculum for practice.

And of course, that starts with quality.

Colleen: Something that makes a good audio describer or a good script is being able to pare down your words. They don't have to be complete sentences. The person can still hear what's going on. You have to think of it as what is the dialogue cover? What is that sound effect cover? If the phone rings, you don't have to say, "The phone rings." Because we just heard it. So, it's a different way of thinking about things. You have to be observant as a describer and the best description is something that eventually, about 15 minutes in, you don't even notice it anymore. It becomes the narrator of the story.

[Frozen audio description clip]

Good audio description will get you set up for whatever emotionally needs to be conveyed, but it doesn't try to describe absolutely everything, so that you can have your own conclusions for things. Audio description is not there to interpret. You are not belittling your audience by interpreting anything. You wouldn't say, "Mary is really, really sad." You would say, "Mary cries."

You don’t want to distract from the action. You're being someone’s eyes and filling in that visual picture so that they can follow along with the rest of the experience.

Having access to the movies and television shows that influence our culture is important for all of us. And many people who are blind can sometimes feel isolated from the rest of the world.

Unfortunately, the biggest hurdle for this technology is simply, awareness.

Colleen: If the studio and the directors and the people writing this content, if they're not aware of that audio description is existing, they're not going to put it in the contract. It’s so important to focus on the positivity and have it be a positive thing for everyone. It’s such a cool service.

And this service just doesn’t have to be for the visually impaired. Think about it, you’re listening to a story right now, not watching it. How cool would it be to catch up on your favorite TV shows and movies on a road trip or on your morning jog or while doing the dishes?

Storytelling empasses all of our senses. There are times where seeing something tells a story or hearing something tells a story. Touch, taste and smell all tell a story. Even if you’ve watched a movie or television show in the past your mind might unlock something new simply by hearing it.

Audio descriptions were created as a tool to aid in accessibility, but this is simply storytelling. And it’s a huge win win for all of us.

Twenty Thousand Hertz is presented by Defacto Sound. A sound design team dedicated to making television, film and games sound insanely cool. Find out more at defactosound.com. This episode was produced by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows and me. With help from Sam Schneble. It was edited by Miellyn Fitzwater Barrows and mixed by Nick Spradlin.

Special thanks to Tommy Edison. He has some really cool videos on Youtube that you should definitely check out. You can find him on Youtube under The Blind Film Critic. Also, a big thanks to Robert Kingett and Colleen Connor.

All of the music in this episode is from our friends at Musicbed. To find out more, check out their website at musicbed.com. Also, if you open your browser right now and go to music.20.org, it will take you to a playlist of tracks that we used in this episode and past episodes. I think you’ll really enjoy hearing them. We’ll also put this link in our show description.

Thanks is always to Mast who created our artwork and Pocketknife who built our website. In addition to building the Twenty Thousand Hertz site, they also recently rebuilt the Defacto Sound website from the ground up. And it’s packed full of some very cool projects.

So, if you want to peek behind the curtain and find out more about the people behind this show check out defactosound.com. Be sure to tell your friends in the TV, Film and Game industries all about it.

Take our very short listener poll at poll.20k.org. It shouldn’t take longer than thirty seconds. This poll is really helpful in determining the direction of our show and who is listening.

Finally, as always, we need your help getting the word out. The only way anyone will know about this show is if you tell them. Can you think of someone who might love this show? If so, send them a text or post this show to facebook or twitter. You can find direct links to this show, as well as all of the links that I’ve mentioned in the show description.

Thanks for listening.

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